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      1. Amen to that, Pink!

        One thing that’s holding me up though, and that’s your (very right) assertion that he’s immoral:

        Could you assist me in your reasoning of how objective morals and duties exist outside of a Supreme Deity? I’m struggling here because there’s like over 2000 years of rigorous academia (from Plato and Aristotle all the way down to Plantiga and William Lane Craig) who just flat out disagree with you and say you’re wrong :/

        Any help you can give would be very much appreciated πŸ™‚

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      2. In most developed countries we live in societies with clearly established secular rights and laws based on Enlightenment values.
        People who engage in hate speech attack the very right of existence of fellow citizens. It’s the starting point of the continuum that led, for example, to the genocide in Rwanda.
        If you need assistance with philosophy perhaps you should sign up for a class. I’m sure your teacher will start by explaining to you Plato and Aristotle don’t fall into the same category as the two others you mention.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Amen to that, Pink!

        I do need some help, though, because I’m getting caught up on something here:

        Could you please help guide me along your reasoning for how objective moral values and duties can exist outside of a Supreme Deity? I only ask because there’s just like over 2400 years of rigorous academia (from Plato and Aristotle all the way down to Planting and WLC) who flat out said that it’s impossible :/ and that sucks because your assertion that these people are immoral demands an objective moral law for them to infringe upon 😦

        Any assistance you can provide in this manner would be wonderfully appreciated πŸ™‚

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      4. Only meant to leave the one comment but WordPress pulled an oopsie, so I edited it a bit and resubmitted after trying to log in again. Sorry about that (spamming doesn’t help anyone)

        And no, you can’t. You see the outward facing IP, but not the actual IP. That’d be a massive security risk for any website to hand out.

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      5. Yep – I’m sure it’s by not being able to see the IP that I tracked Jeff Lane down in Danville, Illinois and figured out all of your supporting Branyan were using servers within 2 hours of his home. It’s almost like you’re all part of the same cult. So on what occasions do you go by the name Andrew Meade? And what’s your personal relationship to Branyan?

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      6. Default gateway =/= ipv4 address, but good job trying to look intimidating though! πŸ˜€ Bad part is that those can be easily fooled by any sort of VPN and make it appear as though the person is posting from any country of their choosing. But, again, I dont want to detract from your amazing technical deduction work and accomplishments here. Kudos to you again πŸ™‚

        And I go by that everywhere, hence my real life initials being my name here. Unlike some, I dont feel the need to hide behind fake usernames except when going undercover to mock others (hence the ChristiansSuck profile).

        As for personal relationship, Im not supposed to tell you this but John and I are actually gay lovers. It started when I was a kid and he picked me out and groomed me, but it’s okay now because I consent now and that’s all that matters πŸ™‚

        In all actuality, I haven’t gotten to see John in at least 8 years or so– during half of which I lived in Texas. Kinda blows a hole in the whole close-knit-cult thing, but youre not one to be burdened by silly things like coherent fact sets, so thats ok. We won’t hold that against you.

        We will, however, hold your inability to face unedited comments against your “smart man” persona. Editing your opponents’ statements in order to make them easier to attack is quite literally the scholastic definition of the strawman fallacy. Intellectual cowardice is even worse than the physical sort; because in discussions you won’t die– you’ll just be temporarily humiliated.

        But then again, “Vanity, thy name is atheism”

        Oh, and I forgot to mention last night that MacIntyre pointed out like 40 years ago that the Enlightenment project of ethics sans metaphysics was doomed to fail from the beginning. That is by no means a “new” thought among academia– in fact Hume’s opponents raised the same objections. The choice is either objective moral values (which cant exist in the Enlightenment-boasted Kantian Transcendantal Idealism), or nihilsim (where everything you condemn has no basis to be condemned by).

        Fun fact: their choice kicked off two centuries of genocide throughout Europe and resulted in the 20th century being called the Century of Death. You’ll never guess which one it is they chose :^)

        Anywho, this has been fun and all and I have gotten a taste for why John and Amanda like poking you guys so much– you make it too easy! Toodles!

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      7. That’s a whole lot of hot air and deflection which still doesn’t explain your “proximity” to Branyan – or are you telling us you were masking your vpn to fake your proximity. LOL!!!! Sheer genius! Your tech skills are amazing. The cleverness of sending the same comment from different accounts is particularly admirable. Was the Branyan brigade also hiding their IP’s when they left comments on other blogs? Or can I check with other blog owners? I already have, genius.

        Liked by 3 people

      8. And don’t forget, John – the next time you want to make yourself seem like a completely innocent party, what you have to do is mask your identity so you appear to be the guilty party. Btw, here’s a copy of the Kokomo Indiana IP info that our friend sent me and that we were talking about yesterday.

        Liked by 2 people

      1. This comment contained a link to anti-scientific, debunked, conversion therapy. A practice rejected by medical communities worldwide. For that reason the link was deleted.

        It sounds like you believe very strongly that “consent” makes something good… Or, at least, it sounds like you’re trying to repeat that over and over until you believe it.

        But, personally, I’m not interested in all the drama. I tend to believe Brahman is wasting his time talking to people who already know their behavior is unnatural and harmful to themselves and others.

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      2. Consent is a legal imperative that is often the line between legality and illegality. I didn’t invent that, it’s the law in most of the world.
        If you want to better understand the law, I’m happy to provide you with a reading list. And just so we’re clear I have no interest in debating anything with members of the kkk, neo-nazis or whatever variation of that Branyan’s circle falls into.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. No, thanks. I’m repulsed by the hypocrisy of people who hate The Church for telling them what to do, but they treat The Law like it’s never wrong.

        You and I both know “laws” are pliable, fallible standards. I’m afraid you’re using “laws” so you can feel superior to people whose particular fetish hasn’t been legalized (yet). Yours was illegal not long ago…

        You have spent a very long time surrounding yourself with people who don’t question your beliefs very much, and Branyan both upsets and intrigues you because he doesn’t just let you keep your assumptions and your arbitrary definitions of what’s right and wrong.

        Hopefully someday you will stop arguing with him long enough to be honest with yourself.

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      4. Also, Neo-Nazis are bad. And theives and adulterers (just like Branyan mentioned). I agree. There are some really evil things happening in this world, and we need to spread the word.

        So, like I said, I’ll be promoting this blog for you. I can send it to everyone Branyan’s family and his neighbors…everyone at his church. I can even send it to the people who pay him…

        They may be interested to see this whole thread.

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      5. Whoops! I have a rule not to post on the blogs of people who manipulate comments. It is a fear-based move from people who have much to lose from allowing unedited speech. I won’t be commenting here again, and I take back my offer to spread the word to John’s family/friends. There’s no point in them showing up here if you are ALREADY creating an echo chamber. Cheers!

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      6. Were you under the impression I wanted to have a discussion with you? Sorry. As I said no interest in neonazis or promoters of fraudulent therapies like gay conversion therapy. Something that’s being made a crime in various developed countries. You can promote hate and fraud elsewhere. No fraudulent anti-vaccination links will be allowed either.

        Liked by 1 person

    1. You think the Christian Comedy Association would be keen to see it all? Not sure the schools Branyan goes to would be terribly happy about his positions. But hey, if you think the message should be spread…

      Liked by 3 people

  1. John maybe a lot of things but a mouthpiece for rapists and child molesters is quite a bit over the top. I was willing to give you a fair hearing but that statement is just plain ignorant.

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  2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh..MY….EFFING….GOD!!!! Branyan is THE most hilarious human being to EVER walk this earth! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Humor, wit, comedy, and deep satirical intelligence simply drip from this dude’s pores! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! My fuckin’ side is KILLIN’ me from laughin’ at this guy’s wit! Really, and I mean REALLY, someone simply must tell him to become a standup comedian! It comes so effortlessly to him! He isn’t even trying to be funny, and he cracks me up! The guy’s a natural. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, please forgive me, but just thinking about how effing funny he is breaks me up and makes it hard to concentrate. Now, this is a blog I’ll be following cause talent like this guy’s…hell, it’s a once in a century event. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Did you understand what I said in my last comment? Also, could you explain to everyone what your relationship is to John Branyan? Are you part of his religious extremist circle? I noticed all pro-Branyan comments are coming from servers within 2 hours of his home. Yours are being routed from Danville, Illinois. Is Branyan’s hate speech a product of Crossroads Church?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. From their mission statement:

        “We believe that God intends sexual intimacy to occur only between a man and a woman who are married to each other. (1 Cor 6:18; 7:2-5; Heb 13:4.)

        We believe that any form of sexual immorality (including adultery, fornication, homosexual behavior, bisexual conduct, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography) is sinful and offensive to God. (Matt 15:18-20; 1 Cor 6:9-10.)”

        Liked by 2 people

      2. One of the people leaving comments here, Jeff, happens to be on their About page. Pictured with his… sister wives? Child brides? You never know with extremists. The older woman looks like she could be his actual sister, or perhaps an ex-gay lesbian?

        Liked by 2 people

      3. And be warned, these people are armed to the teeth. Very Christlike. I know from Ark that Branyan’s daughter, Amanda, has a gun fetish and went nuts one night threatening to kill people. Don’t know if Branyan himself owns guns, but i wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear he has a cupboard full of assault rifles. Seems to be an evangelical thing.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Terry Jones! Damn, this group Branyan belongs to is SO funny ‘n hilarious that they’ve got Monty Python members joining up! What a compliment! (I LOVE what you’re doing here, Pink! Calling this hate-monger out like this is terrific.)

        Liked by 2 people

      5. They’ve gone very quiet after the church name was exposed. Except Branyan who’s sending emails with links to the garbage he writes as if I’d be interested. He also says he’s not afraid at all – which is obvious from the amount of comments he’s had his people leave πŸ˜€

        Liked by 3 people

  3. Well Mr. Pink I thought I would take a moment to come out of the hive after I received my orders from the cult leader before I leave you to your online chatter. We believe in free speech over across the pond and I was very accepting of your derogatory comments about me. I am very sorry for you that you had to bring my family into but I suppose their will always be collateral damage even culture wars and someone who uses a blog as a bully pulpit. I was just giving you more opportunity to find out about Mr. Branyan but you took that as an assault. Also to let Mr. Zande know that he whether on purpose or otherwise misrepresented my church (which John doesn’t go to) by using a faith statement from a church in Texas which you know very well that is not where this comes from so maybe you should teach him some of your sleuthing techniques. Maybe link him to where you got the pictures from. So I will wish you well and offer no ill will in fact I will add you to my prayer list. So long.

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    1. Bully pulpit? LGBT people are just trying to get through life, like everyone else – meanwhile people like Branyan are using hate speech to demonise, create animosity and incite hatred and violence against us. By doing things like comparing the benign lives of decent people to the lives of criminals who do harm to fellow citizens he is putting people in danger.
      What he does is disgusting and people who give him cover are just as guilty as he is.
      Whenever anti-gay violence occurs, you can be sure it began with people buying into rhetoric like Branyan’s. If you and your church are against anti-gay hatred then feel free to speak up and decry it. Otherwise don’t pretend you don’t endorse the anti-gay message of extremist churches.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. My apologies Jeff. I stand corrected. I searched Crossroad Church and found that right off the bat. Considering the rather wild anti-gay position as stated I just assumed it was the evangelical Church John and Amanda went to, given their online behaviour and antisocial beliefs, as expressed.

      I assume by your reaction, then, that

      1) you were not aware of John Branyans behaviour online,

      and 2) that you personally don’t support slavery, genocide, and murdering gays.

      That’s heartening, but I’m curious as to why you tolerate it in people within your church, especially since these people express these abhorrent beliefs so publically, and brazenly, I might add.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. There’s a brand of extremist religious grifter, like Branyan, that put a huge amount of energy into deception and bad faith arguments. They use neonazi language and then pretend it was merely coincidence. They promote violence and then say they were joking. They propose debunked and criminal conversion therapy and then say it’s just an *opinion* they’re entitled to.
        It’s funny how Jeff acts as if the honour of his family has been called into question here – imagine how he’d feel if every day of the year swathes of members of a religious group were comparing his law abiding life to that of someone who commits heinous and abhorrent crimes.

        Liked by 2 people

  4. Oh wow.

    I found some good things on his blog- but not by him. Here he quotes good advice about moving on from the past, and denies that they work, and proposes his own way.

    But- a US Christian. After some fuckwit said, in a sermon, stick all the gays behind a fence so they will die out, and another said stone them- “It’s not my word, it’s God’s word”- I no longer examine these things too closely. Have as much fun as you can.

    He does not seem to understand the difference between deontology and consequentialism. A little Kant might do him some good, too.

    Liked by 2 people

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